Dave Graveline:
This next guest is with a technology company that's focused on providing accessibility and usability solutions for websites and cleverly enough, mobile apps. Gee, maybe we could do something with them. The chief innovation strategist and advisor to the CEO from UsableNet is Jason Taylor. Jason, welcome Into Tomorrow. How you doing?
Jason Taylor:
I'm doing great Dave. Thanks for having me.
Dave Graveline:
It's a pleasure to have you. And tell me first a little bit about UsableNet. I kind of did a brief introduction, but what is the company about?
Jason Taylor:
Well, we help a companies such as retail, travel and banking companies, to ensure their websites and apps can be used by everyone. Particularly we focus on making sure that those sites and apps can be used by blind users that utilize screen readers to shop, book and bank online. So essentially making sure that people with disabilities aren't left behind in the digital space.
Dave Graveline:
Excellent. And especially being radio, we have a lot of folks that are sight impaired that listen of course to radio, and have all their lives, and we're not only thankful for them as listeners as well. But we like to spread this kind of news to let people know that there are folks like you guys out there that are working hard to make it easier for everyone, including those kinds of folks that might need a little extra assistance.
Dave Graveline:
So what is website accessibility anyway? I mean, one would assume that in the case of the example you just gave, that if you can go to a website and there's a screen reader capable that folks can get information, but man, some websites I think can be so complicated. Even ours, we've got 24 years worth of shows posted that it can get really complicated, or a site that's like a whole bunch of pictures and a whole bunch of text. That's got to be confusing.
Jason Taylor:
Well, I think the best analogy is to think about access to websites and apps similar to access to physical spaces like restaurants and hot offices. An office is very complicated to build, but there's a set of rules to make sure that those offices can be used by people who are in wheelchairs. That light switches are in the right place, doorways are wide enough. So in the website and app space, there's similar guidelines, obviously not to do wheelchairs, but to do with the technology that people use if they're low vision or no vision. And making sure the website's got the things in the right places for those people to easily find and use.
Dave Graveline:
Oh very cool. And I would hope that most companies do care that their websites and their apps for that matter are accessible to people with disabilities. But do you find that a lot of companies just figure it's overwhelming and that they really are trying to reach the majority of the population, and if they can't quite get to everyone then that's life I guess? Or so much for as much business as they can do. I mean how, what kind of reaction do you find that you're getting from people?
Jason Taylor:
Well it's exciting times in this particular space right now. I'll give you a little bit of background about what's happening in the actual legal space because a lot of the advocates actually use more inclusion, additional access so there are active lawsuits right now where advocates have identified really meaningful things that they can't use, whether that's banking, whether that's education online, and they're trying to use the law to push the advocacy. I think if you ask me do our clients or do companies care? They do. Do they always think about it and plan? Probably not. So the digital space, very fast moving, people want to build a website and an app very quickly. They may not take into account the importance of certain smaller aspects that they need to do, so they can make mistakes.
Jason Taylor:
And unfortunately a little bit like an office space, if you built it and you didn't think about accessibility, to redo it is quite expensive. A lot of companies have found themselves moving very fast. Websites are different than office buildings. They change all the time. As you said, you released a new app, so a new version comes quickly. You don't get a new version of an office block very quickly, so people can make mistakes because they're moving very fast. So we try to help companies ensure that they're doing the best possible job, but with the least amount of resources applied to it.
Dave Graveline:
I'm seeing on your website that ADA website lawsuits are now reaching one an hour on average, and I certainly understand the years of office buildings and general construction for example, needing to be ADA compliant and so forth. I didn't know that there were laws about websites having to be ADA compliant as well.
Jason Taylor:
Yeah, it's an interesting time. It's the fastest private lawsuit sector right now. I would say that there's debate whether the ADA covers websites, but if we all think about it practically, a website today or an app, it is where people go to do things. It's where you go to shop, it's where you go a bank, and the ADA at its core level, is about equal access. So essentially the ADA is being used as a tool by advocates to bring the attention to website, [inaudible 00:07:30] and apps, that they are excluding people from the digital opportunities that we all take for granted.
Dave Graveline:
So what are some of the things Jason, that companies can actually do to make their websites accessible to users of all abilities?
Jason Taylor:
Well, I think the first thing that we normally understand is that a company typically didn't build their website, they purchased or they paid someone to build that website. So I think the practical first thing is to talk to the company that you paid to build your website or your app. Understand whether they are familiar with what they need to do and whether they've done any testing to make sure that the website only works for the general public, but also works for people who use special devices like assisted technology. So I think the first place to stand is where do you spend your dollars, and make sure you spend your dollars with people and companies which take this seriously. I think that's the easiest way for what I'll class as the majority of companies to take this and be an active part in that.
Dave Graveline:
And I think that's the key point there. Let the free market determine who's taking good care of people. Because if you can go to one banking site and you can't do everything you need to do, yet some other competitor does make it easier for you, well obviously use that competitor, use that that other establishment. And while that's not always the easy answer, it certainly, I think, will drive more people to pay attention to the kinds of things that they should be doing.
Jason Taylor:
Yeah, and I'd also say that there's good stories and bad stories. Actually, we had a webinar yesterday with a very interesting gentleman by the name of Joe works for the Helen Keller Institute for the blind. He's blind himself. He teaches actually young people how to use technology. And he was talking about the fact that he just got his new guide dog, and he had to go to a website for the first time, which was chewy.com and he found that he could do everything he wanted. He could register for an account. He could look for products, he could read reviews, he could add them to cart, he could purchase them, so there are companies out there doing a good job, and of course he will now be a Chewy customer for life.
Jason Taylor:
So there's a really good advocacy around, if you do a great job, you're going to have this community use you on an ongoing basis. So there's definitely a business reason, but a lot of advocates obviously feel that they might be marginalized because they're not as vocal as a group, as some others. And essentially they're using the law today to bring attention to that.
Dave Graveline:
And I'm thinking a lot of folks listening to us right now that have websites are wondering, well how do I know if my site is accessible? And I'm now noticing that you've got a testing tool, a free one, on your website at UsableNet.com. Tell me about that. How does that work?
Jason Taylor:
It's very simple to use. You essentially just put your main URL in and your email address, and you'll be sent back a quick report of the home page, which will give you a feeling of where you stand with regard to accessibility. So essentially what that tool does, and I'll go back to the office analogy because I think it's easier. It goes and checks, if all the light switches are in the right place, if the doors are wide enough, if the handle's in the right place to use on doors, and essentially gives you a list of things which are not in the right place and have not been done correctly.
Jason Taylor:
So you can actually then take that and send it to your web designer or your web agency, or the company that you paid to build a website and say "Guys, these are things that we should be fixing." And that's again, my advice to any company out there is to be proactive and go and talk to the company that they gave money to, to build websites and make sure that company knows that they're responsible for making sure that everybody can use the site. Because also if it can't be used by everyone, you're also potentially losing money, losing brand awareness, losing everything essentially to do with business.
Dave Graveline:
Oh for sure. So I would think that web designers would certainly want to not only be in compliance, but for all the reasons you gave, want to do as good a job as possible with a new website and or certainly version two of an existing site, to make some of those necessary changes.
Jason Taylor: \
Exactly, and we actually work with lots of web agencies, so we partner with web agencies to give them the tools, to give them the knowledge that they need, because there is knowledge involved. You need to know what you're doing. So we're also finding those agencies are obviously standing out from other agencies when they'd go for new business, especially in the space where lots of lawsuits are happening. And in that space it's retail, travel companies, food service companies, banking. Web agencies that are competing in that space can see it as an opportunity, can see it as making sure that they're presenting, that they can make sure that their sites are accessible so that they won't receive lawsuits. So it is an opportunity for web agencies as well as their responsibility.
Dave Graveline:
Oh, absolutely. And UsableNet.com is that driving force in this world of accessibility and of course digital transformation. They've been doing this now for more than 17 years. You should check them out. UsableNet.com. Of course we'll get you there when you visit us at Intotomorrow.com. Jason, thanks for spending a few minutes with us. Keep up the good work and we'll keep promoting that it's important for all of us to make sure that our websites and our apps are accessible to everyone.
Jason Taylor:
Thank you, Dave.
Dave Graveline:
My pleasure. Again, UsableNet.com. I'm Dave Graveline. We continue bringing you further Into Tomorrow, right here on the Advanced Media Network.